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  • The Bluest of the Blue Bloods?

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    On the cusp of the original rules of basketball being sold yesterday to Kansas alum David Booth, an age old debate came to mind. Who has the all-time best college basketball program? Is it Kansas? Who else can lay claim to such a lofty title?

    To put this debate to rest once and for all I present to you a scientific approach to answer this question. The factors that will be looked at in determining this will be…

    National Titles
    This category will include both NCAA titles and Helms titles that were not won in the same year.

    Final Fours
    This is simply all the semi-final appearances in the NCAA tournament.

    All-Time Wins
    Total wins in the each individual program’s history.

    Conference Titles
    Total conference titles in all conferences that each program was ever a part of.

    NCAA Tournament Appearances
    This is the total appearances in the NCAA tournament regardless of result.

    Consensus 1st Team All-Americans
    This includes only those individuals that qualified as consensus 1st team All-Americans only.

    Player of the Year Award Winners
    To compute this, the Helms Player of the Year award was used until 1969, and then the Naismith Player of the Year was used until the present day.

    Number of Winning Seasons
    This includes all winning seasons by each individual program not including a .500 season.

    Home Court Advantage
    These ranking are up for debate. These rankings try to take into account the home court advantage throughout the history of the program.

    Tradition
    These rankings are the most controversial considering what defines “tradition.” What was considered was the whole of the program, its founding, its history, its players, its coaches, and other things of a historical significance.

    These factors were ranked from 1-6 with
    6 points awarded to the team ranked first
    5 points awarded to the team ranked second
    4 points awarded to the team ranked third
    3 points awarded to the team ranked fourth
    2 points awarded to the team ranked fifth
    1 point awarded to the team ranked sixth

    The only real question is who should be part of this discussion. Most reasonable college basketball fans would agree that Kansas, Kentucky, and North Carolina do belong in this discussion. However UCLA, Indiana, and Duke would argue that they too belong in this discussion. These “Super Six” schools will be used in determining who has the best program of all-time.

    The Results
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    http://www.unathleticmag.com/2009/10/29/kansas-jayhawks-first-in-preseason-poll/

    #1 Kansas Jayhawks
    Dr. James Naismith, the inventor of the game coached there and is even buried in Lawrence, Kansas.

    Wilt Chamberlain, one of the best basketball players to ever play the game went to school there.

    Allen Fieldhouse, where the Jayhawks play their home games, is widely considered to be the toughest place to play. They even have an 86% winning percentage since it opened in 1955!

    Phog Allen, the school’s leader in all-time wins as a coach, is widely known as the “father of basketball coaching.” Two of his players went on to become the driving forces behind the #2 and #3 ranked programs in this list. Dean Smith a Kansas alum went on to coach North Carolina and Adolph Rupp also a Kansas alum went on to coach Kentucky.

    [hr]

    #2 Kentucky Wildcats
    All-time leader in program wins.

    Adolph Rupp, the school’s leader in all-time wins as a coach, won five national titles, and ranks fourth amongst all coaches nationally in wins.

    They are consistently leading the nation in attendance every year.

    [hr]

    #3 North Carolina
    Michael Jordan, one of the best basketball players ever to play the game went to school there.

    Dean Smith, the school’s leader in all-time wins as a coach, won two national titles, and ranks 2nd amongst all coaches nationally in wins.

    They are tied for 1st with 18 Final Four appearances.

    They are 3rd in all-time program wins.

    They have a winning percentage of 76% all time.

    [hr]

    #4 UCLA
    They have 11 national titles.

    They are tied for 1st with 18 Final Four appearances.

    John Wooden, the school’s leader in all-time wins as a coach, won 10 national titles and ranks 20th amongst all coaches nationally in wins.

    They won a ridiculous 7 straight national titles with the likes of Lew Alcindor and Bill Walton.

    [hr]

    #5 Duke
    They have one of the toughest places to play in the game in Cameron Indoor Stadium.

    Mike Krzyzewski, the school’s leader in all-time wins as a coach, won four national titles, and ranks 3rd amongst all coaches nationally in wins.

    They have nine Players of the Year.

    They are fourth all time in program wins.

    [hr]

    #6 Indiana
    Bobby Knight, the school’s leader in all-time wins as a coach, won three national titles, and ranks 1st amongst all coaches nationally in wins.

    They have won five NCAA titles.

    They have won 62.5% of all of the Final Fours that they have been in.

    They have been to the NCAA tournament 35 times.

    [hr]

    Jason Spencer is college basketball writer for WavingTheWheat.com covering the Kansas Jayhawks and RushTheCourt.net covering the Big Sky Conference. He can be reached at [email protected] and followed on Twitter at @SpenceSports

  • #2
    Re: The Bluest of the Blue Bloods?

    The only problem with your methodology is this


    You&#039;re valuing National Titles at the same level as Conference Titles

    Example


    UCLA is #1 in National Titles, KU is #4

    UCLA is #4 in Conference Titles, KU is #1


    Both teams come out of the combined categories with 6 points


    I don&#039;t know anyone who would value them the same.

    You don&#039;t weight any of your categories.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: The Bluest of the Blue Bloods?

      I don&#039;t know how Kentucky isn&#039;t #1.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: The Bluest of the Blue Bloods?

        Also...when 2 teams tie for 1st (or any position) you can&#039;t give them both 6. It screws up the points. You have to say the first and second teams are tied....one would get 6, one would get 5. So each of them get 5.5. Not sure if it would make a difference but it may.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: The Bluest of the Blue Bloods?

          This is an awfully difficult subject to discuss. It has caused my friends and I to have hours of intense debate. The methodology is meant to start the discussion. That is why I didn&#039;t weigh anything. It does raise a good point about what is the most important. I would agree national titles are more important than let&#039;s say NCAA tournament apprearances. But where would tradition rank? It&#039;s subjective but that is where Kansas has a lot of people beat no question. It is possilble to add other categories as well. Maybe NBA Draft picks, Olympians, winning %, Sellouts at home, the list would be endless. For me on a personal level it comes down to Kansas, Kentucky, and North Carolina. The tie breaker for me is the fact that Dean Smith and Adolph Rupp both won national titles as Kansas under Phog Allen. Hence you could say that Kansas is responsible for the programs of both Kentucky and North Carolina. That is just me of course. And of course having the inventor of basketball coah at your school, deciding he wants to be buried there, and having the original rules of the game displayed on your campus doesn&#039;t hurt either.



          [quote author=Evolvehawk link=topic=2653.msg30118#msg30118 date=1292096860]
          The only problem with your methodology is this


          You&#039;re valuing National Titles at the same level as Conference Titles

          Example


          UCLA is #1 in National Titles, KU is #4

          UCLA is #4 in Conference Titles, KU is #1


          Both teams come out of the combined categories with 6 points


          I don&#039;t know anyone who would value them the same.

          You don&#039;t weight any of your categories.
          [/quote]








          Comment


          • #6
            Re: The Bluest of the Blue Bloods?

            I&#039;m not sure how much that happened before Wilt should even count. He is the one credited with making basketball a national rather than regional sport. By the same token, I don&#039;t know how the Wooden era accomplishments effect current perceptions.
            There is not much question that the KU program was the most influential of the first half century of college basketball.

            Kentucky would be my guess but the SEC was so basketball weak for so long that it skews their numbers. North Carolina has been really good for a really long time.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: The Bluest of the Blue Bloods?

              Just for kicks I decided to see what would happen if I weighted the rankings. I weighted titles and tradition at a factor of 4. All-time wins, conference titles, winning seasons, and final fours by a factor of 3. 1st team AAs, POYs, and Home Court by a factor of 2. With NCAA Tourney appearances at a factor of 1. The results stayed exactly the same.


              National Titles Final Fours All-Time Wins Conference Titles
              Team # Points Team # Points Team # Points Team # Points
              UCLA 11 24 UCLA 18 18 Kentucky 2029 18 Kansas 53 18
              Kentucky 8 20 North Carolina 18 18 Kansas 2011 15 Kentucky 46 15
              North Carolina 6 16 Duke 15 12 North Carolina 2010 12 North Carolina 36 12
              Kansas 5 12 Kansas 13 9 Duke 1921 9 UCLA 30 9
              Indiana 5 12 Kentucky 13 9 UCLA 1689 6 Duke 24 6
              Duke 4 4 Indiana 8 3 Indiana 1658 3 Indiana 20 3

              NCAA Tournament Appearances Consensus 1st Team All-Americans Player of Year Award Winners Winning Seasons
              Team # Points Team # Points Team # Points Team # Points
              Kentucky 50 6 Kansas 20 12 UCLA 10 12 Kansas 91 18
              UCLA 41 5 Kentucky 18 10 Duke 9 10 Kentucky 90 15
              North Carolina 41 5 North Carolina 16 8 North Carolina 7 8 North Carolina 89 12
              Kansas 39 3 UCLA 14 6 Kansas 4 6 Duke 86 9
              Indiana 35 2 Duke 14 6 Kentucky 2 4 UCLA 71 6
              Duke 34 1 Indiana 12 2 Indiana 1 2 Indiana 67 3

              Home Court Advantage Tradition All-Time Best Program Rankings
              Team Points Team Points Team Points
              Kansas 12 Kansas 24 Kansas 129
              Duke 10 Kentucky 20 Kentucky 125
              Kentucky 8 North Carolina 16 North Carolina 113
              North Carolina 6 UCLA 12 UCLA 100
              Indiana 4 Indiana 8 Duke 71
              UCLA 2 Duke 4 Indiana 42

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: The Bluest of the Blue Bloods?

                Can anyone find that ranking system that ESPN did a few years back?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: The Bluest of the Blue Bloods?

                  We don&#039;t have the most titles.

                  We don&#039;t have the most wins.



                  But I still do believe we&#039;re #1.

                  Reasons?

                  You walk into Naismith Court @ Phog Allen Fieldhouse....and before you go in you walk by the original rules of the game. The inventor of the game coached here. UK and UNC got their starts due to people with KU roots.

                  It&#039;s hard to imagine modern basketball without Kansas and it&#039;s influence.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: The Bluest of the Blue Bloods?

                    [quote author=Evolvehawk link=topic=2653.msg30158#msg30158 date=1292115180]
                    UK and UNC got their starts due to people with KU roots.

                    It&#039;s hard to imagine modern basketball without Kansas and it&#039;s influence.
                    [/quote]

                    North Carolina basketball starts a long time before Dean Smith got there.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: The Bluest of the Blue Bloods?

                      [quote author=Geezer link=topic=2653.msg30161#msg30161 date=1292119809]
                      [quote author=Evolvehawk link=topic=2653.msg30158#msg30158 date=1292115180]
                      UK and UNC got their starts due to people with KU roots.

                      It&#039;s hard to imagine modern basketball without Kansas and it&#039;s influence.
                      [/quote]

                      North Carolina basketball starts a long time before Dean Smith got there.
                      [/quote]

                      I understand that

                      But there&#039;s no doubt that UNC was propelled to new heights by Deano.

                      Comment


                      • #12
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                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Horny Adult Dating - Free Membership

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                          • #14
                            Re: The Bluest of the Blue Bloods?

                            Glad to see you&#039;re back VG...



                            I guess Dom and I were right and you really are a DG.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: The Bluest of the Blue Bloods?

                              :rolling:

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