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  • Would you?

    so Beaty is pretty much reviled. Even after today’s win. As is Bowen.

    How would you feel if Beaty was demoted and an experienced head coach hired, but Beaty and Bowen retained? For instance, what if they decided to hire Miles and the staff in place is his staff? Or Mangino? Could that work? Or would you be so pissed that Beaty still had a job you’d still not attend games?

  • #2
    Bowen should have been hired when Beaty was. He had a better resume and a track record of actually coaching football.

    I'm ok firing him but the dude is the best coach we've had on staff going back to the Mangino years. He can coach. I posted this on Slant... He's not the solution but he sure isn't the problem. I'd be ok if he stays.

    I hate everyone and want to clean house. but I'm a Bowen apologist. He can coach.

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    • #3
      KU Defense Final Rank:
      2013-2014 - 96th (of 123) *LB coach
      2014-2015 - 106th (of 125) *D Cord/Interim HC
      2015-2016 - 127th (of 127) *D Cord
      2016-2017 - 109th (of 128) *D Cord
      2017-2018 - 117th (of 129) *D Cord
      2018-2019 - TBD

      I have a soft spot for Alex Gordon, but that doesn't mean he's good. Bowen might be able to coach, but he sure as hell doesn't show for it.

      As for GDI's question, no it wouldn't work. It'd be humiliating for Beaty/Bowen to be demoted and kept around, the incoming coach wouldn't want them, and it just doesn't make sense - if you'e making a change, you gotta go all in on the change. I couldn't see anyone agreeing to it. And the fans would revolt.

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      • #4
        I think you’re probably right. Just trying to get some convo going. And I was drunk. I don’t care if Beaty is humiliated. I don’t think retaining Bowen would be particularly humiliating for him. Frankly it’s more than he deserves.

        Basically, I do think Beaty could be a good HC, but he needs to cook a lot longer under someone who knows what they’re doing. The horrific game management and reportedly terrible practice management evidence the fact he isn’t ready yet.

        It wouldnt bother me that much if he were retained but demoted. But I’m probably he odd man out there.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by ono View Post
          Bowen should have been hired when Beaty was. He had a better resume and a track record of actually coaching football.

          I'm ok firing him but the dude is the best coach we've had on staff going back to the Mangino years. He can coach. I posted this on Slant... He's not the solution but he sure isn't the problem. I'd be ok if he stays.

          I hate everyone and want to clean house. but I'm a Bowen apologist. He can coach.
          Where is the evidence that Bowen can coach? Bowen seems to have this tiny, cult-like following amongst KU insiders that I really don't understand. WTF has he ever produced?

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          • #6
            Originally posted by ono View Post
            Bowen should have been hired when Beaty was. He had a better resume and a track record of actually coaching football.

            I'm ok firing him but the dude is the best coach we've had on staff going back to the Mangino years. He can coach. I posted this on Slant... He's not the solution but he sure isn't the problem. I'd be ok if he stays.

            I hate everyone and want to clean house. but I'm a Bowen apologist. He can coach.
            Not popular but I agree with this post. Our offenses have been historically bad in recent years, and the defense has been in bad positions for years. Not making excuses, just my opinion. I thought Bowen did an admirable job as interim, and I do believe that had he been the head guy instead of Beaty that the program would be further along, probably a 5-6 win fringe bowl team. I have no problem keeping Bowen on staff moving forward. Beaty still hasn’t even been a coordinator, so I’m good with him being a position coach somewhere back in Texas.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Protist View Post

              Where is the evidence that Bowen can coach? Bowen seems to have this tiny, cult-like following amongst KU insiders that I really don't understand. WTF has he ever produced?
              Stolen some bits from an article on Phog.


              Take the 2016 season, for example. The KU defense ranked ninth in scoring defense, ninth in rushing defense, ninth in total defense and ninth in pass defense efficiency.

              If you looked at those numbers, you would assume the defense was bad.

              It wasn't. It actually graded out in a few areas as pretty good.

              On a team that went 2-10, defensive coordinator Clint Bowen led up a unit that ranked second in red zone defense and first in third-down defense. The Jayhawks ranked around the middle of the league in other statistics like sacks and interceptions.

              So why the discrepancy? In 2016, it was the offense that let down the defense. (In fact, here's a storyabout that. Here's another. And another. And another. And another. And another. And another. And another.)

              KU football ranked dead last in the conference in turnover margin. The distance between the Jayhawks at No. 10 (-14) and No. 9 Baylor (-5) was actually greater than the difference between the No. 9 and No. 3-ranked teams in the conference.

              KU turned the ball over 36 times. Only one other team turned it over more than 23.

              Then there was the matter of third and fourth downs — the KU offense ranked dead last in the conference in both — and time of possession — KU ranked ninth, not to mention the punting game, where KU ranked ninth in net average.
              Of course you can make stats say anything but the offense has been historically bad the last few years; I'd like to see his year-over-year performance with a team that at least has an average offense.

              Here's the article - it' actually a good read. https://247sports.com/college/kansas...nse-122104637/

              And just listen to him talk compared to DB or any other assistants. He speaks pretty matter-of-factly, but you can tell when he talks, it's not just empty platitudes. It's strategic stuff that we never get from DB or anyone else. It's refreshing.

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              • #8
                Sorry, ono, but that reads like someone trying REAL hard to find something salvageable in our defense. The fact that we weren't dead last in some categories and were mediocre instead really doesn't point to Bowen being a good coach. And the defense certainly hasn't passed the eye test, despite having some pro-level talent on it.

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                • #9
                  So it's fair to rake him over the coals when he sucks, but he doesn't deserve credit the times his unit is successful?

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by ono View Post
                    So it's fair to rake him over the coals when he sucks, but he doesn't deserve credit the times his unit is successful?
                    If the defense continues at a high level through conference play, I’ll give him credit. But his defenses have been historically bad.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by ono View Post

                      Stolen some bits from an article on Phog.



                      Of course you can make stats say anything but the offense has been historically bad the last few years; I'd like to see his year-over-year performance with a team that at least has an average offense.

                      Here's the article - it' actually a good read. https://247sports.com/college/kansas...nse-122104637/

                      And just listen to him talk compared to DB or any other assistants. He speaks pretty matter-of-factly, but you can tell when he talks, it's not just empty platitudes. It's strategic stuff that we never get from DB or anyone else. It's refreshing.

                      He's responsible for the entire defensive performance, not just areas like red zone holds and third downs. And even those can be misleading; sure a team can be good on red zone D, but how many long plays resulting in TDs did they give up (meaning an opposing team didn't need to be in the RZ as much)?

                      According to the NCAA stats, he's never had a defense ranked above 106th as DC. Maybe it's the offense screwing him, maybe it's a lack of talent, or maybe he's just not a good DC.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by markhawk View Post


                        He's responsible for the entire defensive performance, not just areas like red zone holds and third downs. And even those can be misleading; sure a team can be good on red zone D, but how many long plays resulting in TDs did they give up (meaning an opposing team didn't need to be in the RZ as much)?

                        According to the NCAA stats, he's never had a defense ranked above 106th as DC. Maybe it's the offense screwing him, maybe it's a lack of talent, or maybe he's just not a good DC.
                        I believe it's a perfect mix of all three....I remember being competitive in 2016 until the guys just broke down cause they were on the field all night...we haven't had an offense in like 8 years

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                        • #13
                          To paraphrase Al Pacino in, “A scent of a woman” they need to take a flamethrower to the whole place. Keep Hull if you can and let the new guy bring in his peeps.

                          i don’t ge

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                          • #14
                            Sorry for the strange message. We are house sitting in Jackson Hole Wy. The cheap bastard, worth north of $200m,won’t give us the internet password. I get LTE with my phone but once the wind starts blowing the signal bounces all over the place.

                            i will make my Bowen point when I find WiFi tomorrow.

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                            • #15
                              Here is the thing about Bowen. He has been at KU for 18 of the last 20 years or so. Almost all college football coaches go through an “apprentice” program. You move a lot, it’s tough on your family. You see how other people do things. You learn new things. He hasn’t done that.

                              Thats is why they need to clean house. Tetons are gorgeous today.

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